tv Reliable Sources CNN January 27, 2013 8:00am-9:00am PST
plants but the stoves and wood fireplaces not because they're curling up with a good book, but a massive switch off heating oil as many can no longer afford it to heat their home. heating oil prices have risen here 50% from 2011 to 2012 because of the taxes levied on. so the greeks are turning to burning everything from furniture to chopped down trees. some illegally cut from protected forests. according to the epa, a fireplace emits more than 2,000 times the amount of fine particles that an oil furnace does. surely the environmental and health care costs from toxic clouds of smoke exceeds the benefits of collecting high heating oil taxes, especially if the citizens are no longer buying it. what is plan "b" for greece? the correct answer was "b." the elysse treaty was signed on
january 22nd, 1963 by the president and west german chancellor and ushered in a new era of peace between these two neighbors who had started three wars between each other in the beliethe previous 75 years. for all their problems, france and germany have come a long way. thanks to all of you for being part of my program this week. i'll see you next week. stay tuned for "reliable sources." he sparked a furious debate over guns, violence and football and this was before newtown. he is a sportscaster who tackles tough subjects and doesn't view controversy as being out of bounds. a no holds bar interview with bob costas. which will also examine the great girlfriend hoax involving manti te'0 who has sort of come
clean to katie couric. >> people look at this story and think you helped perpetuate this story of heartache and pain, which was as you said earlier, was legitimate. >> how did the press fall for this crazy in the first place? the david petraeus scandal back in the news as i conduct the first interview with jill kelley who said the media rushed to publish half truths and lies about her. but, the polarized coverage of barack obama's inaugural a. i'm howard kurtz and this is "reliable sources." the media swooned over manti t'eo the notre dame football star who said he was inspired by
the girlfriend who he mostly communicated with online. >> when i lost my girlfriend and my grandmother, that was possibly the hardest time in my life. >> but after the supposed death of the girlfriend they revealed she didn't exist. >> manti t'eo's inspirational story was reported everywhere. on the day of the bcs champi championship game but we were all duped by what turned out to be a fictitious story made up online. >> he claimed he was the victim of the hoax, as well, but lee ed a admitted to katie couric when he found out about it, he cover oed it up. >> do you see why people viewed this at worst as a complete lie and at best incredibly misleading. >> i can see that. for that, for people feeling that they're misled, that i'm sorry for. >> this story was working for
you. you were being considered for the heisman trophy. it was a huge, huge deal. so, did you say, this is my story and i'm sticking to it? was there a part of you saying that? >> it was a big day for me and i was scared. that's the truth. i was just scared and i didn't know what to do. >> i sat down in new york with bob costas the veteran nbc sportscaster and commentator to talk about this and other controversies from the world of sports journalism. >> bob costas, welcome. >> thanks, howie. >> a lot of sports controversy that have broke n entothe headlines and the newscasts. mati t'eo sits down with katie couric to talk about this tale of lies. would you want to do that interview? >> i would have been weary because -- >> a great football hero who
said he was inspired to play harder because his girlfriend had died and the girlfriend he had this online relationship with never existed. >> yeah, to me. two aspects that make this a story bigger than manti t'eo which would legitimize it. why is it necessary that we have all the methology that surrounds sports. i grew up as a sports fan and i bought into that mythology and i hope some of it is still true. >> it feeds the media machine and they have to build up these players into larger than life heroic figures. >> i get all that. >> we in the press bear a lot of the responsibility for glorifying human beings with flaws who then turn out to be liars, cheats, not the minority of them to be, sure. media do that. >> and, yet, wasn't it a good enough story anyway? it seems like a likable young man. and until he got to the national
championship game. i don't know why any of this was necessary and, as we speak, we still haven't really unraveled the story. >> how do you think katie couric did in that interview? >> it seems to me the portions that i saw, she did a very good job and polightly aggressive just like oprah did with lance armstrong. another part of this story that people have not looked at closely enough. that is, what is the internet and technology doing to people? what is it doing to their feelings? is it diminishing empathy? does it make it easier for the mean spirited and honest to exploit not only their individual victims, but to exploit the gullable among their readership. many people, including young, bright people, make no distinction between that found online and that what passes from the main stream media. we know the main stream media is flawed. that's what your program is about. holding them to account. i still would tend to believe
that the average website is not going to be as credible as the "chicago tribune" or "washington post." >> i hasten to point out that this manti t'eo was busted -- the incredible thing to me looking back espn, "sports illustrated" and all these names fell for this story even though when the story came out, the woman had a car accident and died of leukemia. no obituary and news organizations fell for it and it was a feel-good story. >> i didn't cover notre dame football. i barely knew who he was. >> what do you make of the fact that so many news organizations got duped? >> it was a feel-good story and they didn't look beneath the surface and so they did get
duped. >> no picture of the two of them together. >> look-in every way. on this one, dead spin deserves a lot of credit. if we look back at the full-body of work, such as it is of dead spin, that may suggest a different story. >> we also had the final fall from grace from lance armstrong who sat down with oprah winfrey. the ten years of denial while winning all those cycling championships, never mind, i did dope. he lied to the fans and to me. >> and to me. >> about this very subject? >> when you found out he was backing off that and on oprah's couch having been lied to by lance armstrong. what was your reaction? >> my thought was he ran out of other avenues, at least in his own mind, even though some of his advisors said he was opening himself up to further criminal and civil liblability. he decided to take this route
because there was no longer a plausible story. he couldn't find any more. he had no leg left to stand on and that was the reason he took this route. so, that makes that even less sympathetic. and what also separates him from other users of performance enhancing drugs, most of those others simply never addressed it or gave quick denials and moved on. they didn't vilify, defame, sue and try to ruin all of their accuse accusers, who turned out to be truthful. that turns out to be really bad behavior. then he acknowledges himself that he bullied and coerced those around him and people dislike that behavior, as well. then there's this element. you could make a case for barry bonds for the hall of fame and you don't have to say that he's man of the year. you could just say he was a great baseball player. but armstrong's public image was based on a belief in his character. most americans don't care about cycling as a sport. they cared about lance
armstrong. so, they had more invested in him as a person. so that makes the hill a much steeper hill than anyone he had to climb through the tour de france to get back into the public's good graces. >> circle back to my question. were you ticked off that he lied to you three times? >> as i remember, i subjected him to some pretty direct questioning. i'll say this, he was a good liar. he's smart. he's shrewd. he had his story down. he's someone to be reckon with in that respect. i don't think i was personally offended. that was the route he was taking and i couldn't crack him and no one else could at that point either. >> when we come back, more with bob costas and his most extensive interview about the furor he sparked over gun control, his first since the week the controversy erupted. >> i'm not by nature a mean-spirited or personally combative guy, but i am willing to take a stand and voice an opinion.
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it was just a few weeks ago that bob costas delivered a commentary on sunday night football that sparked a debate. the game was held one day after belcher fatally shot himself and his girlfriend. >> you want some actual perspective on this. well, a bit of it comes from the kansas city base writer jason whitlock, with whom i do not always agree but today said it so well that we may as well just quote or paraphrase from the end of his article. our current gun culture ensures that more and more domestic disputes will end in the
ultimate tragedy. but here is what i believe. if belcher didn't possess a gun, they would both be alive today. >> the attacks from the right were fast and furious. >> bob costas based on the standards of our society today deserves to be fired for these remarks. >> how come costas gets to express his opinion during half-time of sunday night football? the answer is simple because that's the opinion of his bosses. he gets to express the opinion because they're with nbc. >> let's go back to early december. belcher of the kansas city chiefs kill himself and his girlfriend. you decide to use your half-time commentary to address it. did any part of you say maybe i shouldn't get into this? >> yes. not because i didn't think it was an appropriate subject. had it involved, no matter how
great the tragedy, had it been aurora or newtown and not involved the nfl or nfl player, it would not have been appropriate. this was an entirely proper topic for a football audience. every other nfl show the entire weekend. it happened on saturday, the day before. they took a different tact. what gave me pause and in retrospect what made it flawed is that i had less time than i usually have. i usually have about 2 1/2 minutes. that's pretty tight. >> but you had 90 seconds. >> in this case i had 90 seconds because they had such interesting sound bites from the chief players and tony dungy and company handled that back in new york. >> before we go into the timeline, i want to ask you this broader question. sports is an arena a lot of people think brings people together, it's not an arena where you talk about politics or ideological differences. some people, as you got beat up
over this said, why is bob costas taking a very volatile political issue and putting it on on a football game. >> i would think 90% of those who said that didn't agree with my point of view or what they perceived my voint of view to be. if i said something they agreed with, they would have said that's just fine. there are times when inevitably if tommy smith and john carlos give it this at give it this at the '96 olympics. steroids, whatever it may be -- >> there's no separating the two, you say. >> there are times when, when sports becomes not only a place, but at times the place to talk about certain social issues. >> when you deliver that commentary, you chose largely to quote someone else, jason whitlock. why did you do that as opposed to saying here is what i, bob
costas, think. >> if i thought what they said was worthwhile. in this case because i had so little time, i thought what whitlock said was worthy, plus, he's from kansas city, although this is not entirely a problem as it relates to football that is connected to african-american players, the large majority of players in the nfl are african-american. jason whitlock is an afric african-american columnist and jovan belcher was african-american. he might have had better insight. the time element was important here. i said this and it was lost on a lot of people. i said that in the aftermath of tragedies in sports, you always hear the mindless cliche. this really puts it all in perspective. but, obviously, no one gains any perspective because they're right back to their same view of sports immediately thereafter. i said, if we're really looking
for perspective, a bit of it can be found. and i was trying to imply there that an aspect of this, a bit of perspective on a larger and more complex problem can be found in what whitlock said. >> but the way it was read was, okay, you're quoting someone else and you're kind of making a plea for gun control, but not in your own name and you only had 90 seconds. looking back, you had a lot of time to think about this. was it a bit of a busted play? could you have handled it better? >> i could have handled it better and i think given the amount of time that i had, i would have been better off just crafting my own short statement and kind of realizing that it could not have been as complete as what i wanted it to be. there's also, a little bit of inside baseball or football inside this case, too. but i tried three times to contact jason whitlock. there are any number of witnesses, producers and what not. i tried three times to contact him to ask for permission to paraphrase or put in qualifiers. i couldn't reach him.
i never heard from him until the next day. i wanted to say, for example, while certainly second amendment rights should be respected and certainly there are occasions when guns are used legitimatically for self-defense, more often than not, as jason whitlock said, they exceacerbate our flaws and then i would have said at the end. whitlock said and i quoted him directly and said three times in the 90 seconds, as whitlock said, as whitlock wrote, he said this is what i, jason whitlock believe. if javon belcher did not possess a gun -- look, unlike what some people said, i live on this plan and i realize you can kill someone by other means. i knew o.j. simpson. we all played clue, professor cl could have killed somebody with
the lead pipe. but far more homicides happen by gun. it's far easier to do it with a gun. although i never used the words second amendment or gun control, i used the words gun culture because that's what whitlock was referring to. >> and do you believe there is a gun culture in the nfl? >> absolutely, absolutely i do. i believe there is a gun culture in the country. i believe there is a gun culture in the nfl and else where in professional sports, which has to do with an attitude towards dw guns. which even if those guns are legally obtained would still more often than not lead to heart ache and tragedy than to any legitimate sporting use or use by self-defense. but let me jump in with this, as well. some people said, well, why would he quote jason whitlock. i quoted whitlock because i thought what whitlock said that fragment had credibility. but then when i was asked on programs i went on the following
week. i didn't dodge the question. when i was asked my feelings about gun control. i said this country needs responsible gun control. there's no reason why you need high capacity magazines and no reason why any citizen needs an assault weapon. that their attitudes towards guns in this country that in my view have little to do with any reasonable interpretation of the second amendment. so, in no sense did i hide behind jason whitlock. it is just that i had 90 seconds that noight. >> all right, now you're out from the time constraints and able to say that. you were taking a political stand on a political issue, which is your first amendment right. but, you know, a lot of people, as you know, tune in to watch bob costas because you're an authority on sports and you have such long experience and you must have known and you must know now that you are alienating some of your fans who don't agree with you. in fact, vigorously disagree with you on this issue. but you're willing to do that. >> well, i think most people know that i'm willing to either
ask questions that most sportscasters do not ask and take positions. sometimes critical of the leagues which i cover. >> is that hard for you to do? >> it's not hard for me to do. it's my national inclination. very few especially on the national level do it. >> let me stop you right there. why do very few sportscasters do it? anything to do with the fact, at least they work with networks that have these multi-million dollar deals with the sports leagues and perhaps they don't want to offend those that are generating the cash for their employees? >> i think it has a lot to do with that. i think, also, it has a lot to do with the personalities of some of the people who do this. and some of them are very, very talented at what they do. everyone is different. i favre kind of a textured approach. a good edition of "sports illustrated" has a celebration of a great game, beautiful photography that shows you the artistry of sports, it has humor and quirkiness, but it also has journalism.
and it also has commentary. in my ideal world, that's the way sports coverage would be. we know that that world is never really coming on network television because what pays the bills is the games themselves. i don't have any problem with that. >> but if you're doing the olympics, which nbc has paid huge sums, aren't there some constraints on how far you think you can go in criticizing the games or handling of the games or the security, whatever it is, because you are there as a representative of the network or do you think -- >> you know what i'm constrained more by and despite the fact it is a thrill and an honor. the most frustrating thing about hosting the olympics, the formats. the formats are very constraining. especially in prime time, which is where i'm seen. they're trying to get to the stuff that people want to see that moves the ratings needle and it's been a very successful approach. however, i would say if people wanted to take a look at the times when i've sat down with jacques roga and interviewed the
head of the ioc or when some nation or some individual was accused of malfesance or drug use or when the ioc would not acknowledge the 40th anniversary of the munich tragedy with the israeli athletes and the palestinian terrorists. i've spoken out about that and i've asked, i think, tough, direct questions of jacques roga and other olympic officials or the same questions you would ask on "meet on the press." that's the way it should be done. >> do you think in the wake of the horrifying newtown tragedy the country is having the debate about guns that perhaps you hope to stimulate a little bit with what you did on sunday night football. >> although the two are not related at all. >> thought relating the tragedies, i'm talking about the deba debate. >> it has changed the tone. and if i could just back track a little bit when you asked about alienating fans. you're never the best judge of yourself. i'm not, by nature, a mean spirited or personally combative guy, but i am willing to take a stand and voice an opinion. and it's always been my hope
that people can make that distinction and they could say even if i don't agree with him, he seems like a thoughtful guy who tries to put things in context and understands nuance. in this particular case, i think i made an error in thinking i could get as much nuance as was necessary in in that short period of time and it's such a volatile subject that i think some people came after me, personally, in a way i wasn't used to. a lot of those attacks. whenever someone says something someone disagrees with. it's characterized as a rant. very infrequently would i be seen as ranting. even if you don't agree with me. a rant or a tirade or he hijacked half-time to make a political statement. that kind of stuff is over the top. rush limbaugh said that i was merely echoing what my nbc bosses wanted me to say because of the msnbc connection. it's perceived as a liberal network. the problem with that, it's 100%
false and based on no knowledge that he had of any kind. the president of nbc sports is a gun owner and a hunter. i wrote what i wrote. they knew it was going to go on the air because they had to know what it was for time. they had not so much as a com comma's input to what i had to say nor did -- >> after we turned the cameras off he added this. >> gun culture attitudes towards guns quite apart from whether those guns are legally obtained and quite apart from people's legitimate second amendment rights. we have been able to change the culture in many areas without outlawing things. there are certain remarks that used to be common place, racist remarks, homeo phobic attitudes. mcdonald's offers salads, as
well as big macs. we didn't outlaw big maces we changed some people's attitudes. cigarettes remain a legal product, but the culture has changed. >> some other comments from costas on super bowl sunday. up next, a presidential inauguration is supposed to bring people together, but very polarizing coverage on fox and msnbc. we'll look at that in just a minute. hold on, prilosec isn't for fast relief. cue up alka-seltzer. it stops heartburn fast. ♪ oh what a relief it is!
barack obama's second inaugural not surprisingly didn't generate the interest or the ratings of his first swearing in. but the president's staunchly liberal speech played differently on the cable channels with some on fox news simply appalled. >> but yesterday while covering his second inauguration, the so-called journalist in the main stream media could hardly contain their giddiness and excitement. the main stream media is now an extension of the obama press office and so evident in how they let him get away with
everything. >> i think it's important to note that rush limbaugh has been put into the dust pan of history here that msnbc is a rising force and fox is in a delusional time warp and trending downwards. >> joining us now to talk about this clarence page and david frum contributing editor for "newsweek" and daily beast, where i also work. is hannity right? is the media swooning over this left wing speech by the president? >> the speech was not crazy, but it was a much more fighting speech than we heard from an inaugurated president in a long time. the trend was for inaugurals to be dramatic. this was a 19th century speech where they didn't deliver the states of the union in person. >> the coverage, in your view, adequately reflect the liberal tone of the speech. >> everybody got it. this was the most liberal speech. we have heard from a president
at this occasion. >> did some commentators seem to you, angry, about the speech that the re-elected president chose to give? >> rational reason and all virtus. you know, let's face it. president obama won't say it up front but he is acknowledging there are red states and blue states and swing states and this is the reality of today. he is now in his legacy forming period. i thought it was a very roosevelt, fdresque speech. but he was, his language in terms of a collective response to our problems bringing people together. >> and the first -- >> it didn't strike -- >> he wanted that word in there. >> and the first inaugural where i heard a president talk about our gay brothers and sisters.
an ideological speech like that should be debated and argued about on television. was it as divisive a speech as some on fox news made it sound? >> it is a pretty divisive speech and i think the president would say constructively so. the theme of his second term. in his first inaugural theme was i don't believe -- in this speech he's saying conflict is real. you want to fight, here is the fight. we're going to fight on climate change and immigration. that fight is coming up very fast. i am ready to fight. people reported that way were reporting it accurately. >> msnbc act as a bit of a cheerleading squad. >> i'm shocked. shocked at the very notion, howard, this would happen just as sean hannity is a journalist. i love the way he attacks journalists, he doesn't talk about himself. he has always been a radio talk show host brought to tv. this has become the position now in cable tv like it or not. that msnbc gives you the left
response to fox and cnn somewhere in that wobbly middle trying to stick with some old-fashioned notion. >> cnn did win the ratings on inauguration day, which was a good win for the network. >> you have a hard news story like an inauguration or hurricane. >> the thing that got the most attention is not what you talked about, michelle's bangs. let's be honest about that. the president is not done with his second-term roll out. he did a taped interview tonight, which will air on cbs' "60 minutes." let's take a look at a little bit of that. >> why did you want to do this together? a joint interview. >> the main thing is, i just want to have a chance to publicly say thank you because i think hillary will go down as one of the finest secretary of states that we had. >> a few years ago would have been seen as improbable because we had that very long, hard primary campaign. >> hillary clinton, of course, went through some very rough
hearings this week on the benghazi attack and cbs had asked for the president and the white house said we'll give you hillary clinton, too. buff up her image a little bit. >> something much bigger is going on here. what this interview is about is the president saying, i'm neutral in the forth coming clinton/biden contest. >> i'm neutral even though i'm sitting down with hillary clinton. >> joe biden is telling everything who will listen that he won't be too old in 2016. by sitting there alongside the secretary of state and saying such complimentary things. i think he is sending a message. i also like this person. those of you who are planning a race, leave me out of this. it's between those two. >> why is "60 minutes" the go-to program for the white house and i've lost count of how many times he sat down. >> started with bill and hillary clinton back in '92. you know -- >> problems in our marriage. >> for one thing. back then "60 minutes" was the highest rated, it still is of
the magazine shows. that's where you go. just like "nightline" with tod koppel used to be the national confessional and now it's oprah. >> do you think, you know, we saw the split you talked about where hillary clinton sometimes emotional testimony on benghazi was ripped on fox, defended on msnbc, but do you think 2016 will decide this joint interview on "60 minutes" is part of an effort to give her a nice send off by the president. >> you know, this is to show that obama is neutral because until you mentioned that, i was thinking this is some kind of an endorsement by obama. but, you know, he's still going to have joe biden by his side for the next four years. and they have mraenty of opportunity for biden to get exposure. i think hillary clinton will be in that race, even if she doesn't realize it yet. >> she hasn't made up her mind, but you have. she was a political superstar when fox news hired
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for three years now the former governor of alaska has been one of the most prominent voices on fox news. >> barack obama is a socialist. he believes in socialism, in redistributing wealth and confiscating hard-earned dollars of our small business men and women. >> on friday we learned that sarah palin's contract will not be renewed. sarah palin was a very hot property when fox hired in her 2009. what happened? >> that's show biusiness.
she is played out as far as is fox is concerned and her appeal. but it's been said roger els was not happy with the palin arrangement. he wants to get away from that sort of show biz pundtry on the right, unless she's going to it clear her candidacy, i suppose. >> is it the political climate has changed since palin's vp run or sarah palin's star has faded? >> i think both are true. watch this in tandem when glenn beck was taken off the air. a period from 2009 to 2011 where there was nothing too wild to put on fox news. that began to frighten his programmers. this man was capable of saying anything, including things that could wreck his show, damage the network. and as they backed away from him, as they have backed away from other characters who went, the whole exercise is, the whole network is an exercise in going
too far, but as they retreated from those who went farthest, i think this is a milestone, as well. >> my reporting shows that fox news did offer sarah palin a new contract, but what i would call low ball offer, significantly less. one other news item, president obama gave an interview to the new republic, relaunching its magazine. one of the biggest factors is going to be, says the president, how the media shapes debates. if a republican member of congress is not punished on fox news or by rush limbaugh for working with a democrat on a bill or a common interest, then you'll see more of them doing it. is there any possibility that president obama thinks that fox news and rush limbaugh have more influence than they actually have? he brings them up a lot. >> objective reasons how much today's media not just cable tv but blogging and tweeters, almost sound like an old foggy.
the politicians don't know how to deal with it yet. that's why people like chambliss and old school compromise dealmakers are just leaving. >> look what obama is saying. he is saying i could probably get a deal of these republicans, if they're not punished, punished by limbaugh or fox. >> what the president is reflecting there, especially his experience in the house where the incentives on the house members, they are very frightened about primary measures and the overwhelming majority of the house caucus, republican caucus come live in districts where their greatest danger is -- >> conservative media. >> what it means is there are very few things that the house leadership can do to punish these members. it's hard for them to get them off committees. they can't offer them any more of the, sorry, the earmarks -- >> just briefly. what can fox news do? >> they can insight a primary challenge. >> just by sheer intensity of the coverage. >> by presenting people in a
negative light and wrapping up issues that are negative. >> also fund-raising is rewarded by the more polarizing you are as a candidate, the more donations you can get, right or left. >> we are wrapping up issues right here. thanks for stopping by this sunday morning. after the break, i conducted the first interview this week with jill kelley, the other, other woman so-called and she ripped the media. we'll talk about that, next. ♪ ...people noticed. ♪ the all-new cadillac ats -- 2013 north american car of the year. ♪ for a limited time, take advantage of this exceptional offer on the all-new cadillac ats.
from paula broadwell. after three months of silence i sat down with jill kelley for an emotional interview. my story for the daily beast was picked up everywhere. >> two top military men of their generation have been brought by jill kelley. >> the official called them the equivalent of phone sex over e-mail. >> known as name droppers and social climbers. >> let's go to jill kelley. >> what did she tell you about the impact to all that media, much of it negative has had on her and how she feels about it? >> jill kelley told me this wrenching story of having a birthday party for her 7-year-old daughter which is a couple days after this story exploded, soledad, in the media and 70 paparazzi on her front lawn and she felt like her entire family life has been disrupted. she called this a nightmare.
she had been living a nightmare and blames the media for reporting a lot of half truths. >> jill kelley has remained silent until now. >> she seemed to me to be someone who doesn't know what hit her. she doesn't think she did anything wrong. her life has been totally turned upside down. >> joining us now to talk about it is amy argessinger and in new york, lola. amy, jill kelley said the media rushed to publish lies or half truths about her? >> i don't know if it's lies or half truths but i was uncomfortable with the focus on her. it seems that she was the person who originally called authorities to say, hey, i'm getting these threatening e-mails. >> she told me she was terrified. >> she was the victim in many ways and then began the spe speculation of having an affair with general allen and no direct
evidence presented to the media of this, all of a sudden people were investigating jill kelley's finances and investigating her life and the custody battle that her sister was in and i began thinking, why are we paying attention -- what does this have to do with anything? it seems like the story was a little bit out of control. >> lola, on some of the points that jill kelley she said there was 30,000 e-mails as was widely reported between her and general allen in kabul. turns out there was just a few hundreds. we haven't seen them, i haven't seen them, but general allen was cleared by the pentagon investigator fors. the fact that the e-mails were sent by a joint account. there was a rush to judgment and i do think that jill kelley was vilified. but not to blame the victim and i want to preface it by saying not to plame the victim, but she could have saved herself a lot
of heart ache and a lot of humiliation. it still boggles my mind that she didn't grant you this interview several months ago. in the absence of her side of the story, the media's going to run with the juicier, more salacious story because that's what sells papers. >> that is terrible advice, we're living in an era where the story will not disappear. so it's in your best interest to get the story out as quickly and as susinctly as possible. >> they couldn't really get any facts on her behalf. >> not to distract from the media here, but i do want to -- they had no know what was going
to happen here. once someone's name gets out there, it's a juicy story. for a journalist, too often there's a mentality, where there's smoke, there's fire. >> those e-mails that jill kelly made about blackmails. >> if she were having an illicit affair, why would she be going to the media with it. >> this was a tabloid story, why was it news, why waste your time? my feeling was after all this
time and all this publicity, jill kelley had a chance to tell her side of the story. >> first of all, it's a great scoop, kudos to you. second of all, she -- i wish she had gotten it out there earlier because she could have saved her family and herself a whole lot of heart ache. she got terrible advise from who w ever her crisis manager was. if you're not guilt, say you're not guilty. i would have. >> you wrote about jill kelley, i'm sure. >> a couple of times, yeah. >> did you feel uneasy doing it? >> we were not -- things like that. >> she hasn't -- just to digress a little bit. she hasn't lived a perfect life. but none of this would have mattered had there not been in
suspicion fed by the media that she had done something wrong, she had had this fay affair. >> it reminds me of the ri67d jewel -- >> and where all of a sudden, he was the suspect. everyone was scouring ever inch of his life, not particularly flattering. turned out the guy didn't do anything. >> basically every television show on the planet. now going after jill kelly. should she do more or should she now try to get her life back? >> i think 41 should get another interview and then disappear for life. >> i didn't see the e-mails from pauley broad well, there's no prosecution against paula broadwell. still to come, the "new york post" channels hillary's anger,
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